[PROPOSAL] Change to administrative bylaw 6.a.ii
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Displaying output for plurality votingOpen Votes
Proposal Type: Bylaw Revision
Opened: 14-Feb-2018 11:55PM EST
Closing: 21-Feb-2018 11:55PM EST
Kings of New York proposes the following change to bylaw 6.a.ii.
ii. The highest attainable level of any discipline for a player character shall be advanced
To
ii. The highest discipline a player character may purchase is the advanced level.
iii. No player character shall benefit, possess, gain, or use any discipline level above advanced be it temporarily or permanently
Reasoning: there are now multiple ways currently in owbn that allows for a vampire character to gain access to elder level disciplines and have been for a while. The reliqeuary background from kindred of the ebony kingdom, the ritual touch the protectors mind, inspire greatness, a salubri merit that lets you get lvl 9 warrior valeren, and the current onr up for vote.
I have seen all of these and I believe they are unessescary and against the spirit of the bylaw as written. Additionally I could prop to ban all of these but it would create bylaw bloat and won't stop custom content from just doing the same thing. And honestly I would rather play in an org were not some some pcs get elder powers and other don't. I'd rather see a flat ban on all of it.
Just my opinion! I don't think we need pcs rolling around with elder powers.
Adam
KoNY CM
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Ballot Options For
Against
Abstain
64 out of 160 eligible voters cast their ballot
Against
53% (34 votes)
For
33% (21 votes)
Abstain
14% (9 votes)
| Chronicle/Position | Voted for | Comment |
|---|---|---|
| Dubuque, IA - USA, Kingdom of Ashes | For | |
| New York City, NY - USA, Kings of New York | For | We don't need elder disciplines on pcs. Especially for those few who figured out the loophole versus the majority that don't.
Update to note counter point: a pc died recently because of this loophole. It is being used by a few to get elders powers over characters (the majority who dont). Because they figured out to be legally clever and get elder disciplines. This isn't conjecture....it happened This comment has been revised 1 time. Click here to see revision history Version 2 dated: Feb 15 2018, 10:55pm EST We don't need elder disciplines on pcs. Especially for those few who figured out the loophole versus the majority that don't. Update to note counter point: a pc died recently because of this loophole. It is being used by a few to get elders powers over characters (the majority who dont). Because they figured out to be legally clever and get elder disciplines. This isn't conjecture....it happened |
| Campinas, SP - Brazil, Império das Cinzas | For | |
| Rockland, NY - USA, Under The Rock | Against | |
| Mt. Dora, FL - USA, Mutual Alliance | Against | |
| Sheboygan, WI - USA, Blood on the Lake | Against | |
| Curitiba, PR - Brazil, Curitiba By Night | Against | |
| La Crosse, WI - USA, The Rivers Edge | For | |
| Iowa City, IA - USA, Fields of Rage | For | |
| Cape Cod, MA - USA, Rage Across the Cape | Abstain | |
| Stockton, CA - USA, Stockton by Night | Against | |
| Peoria, IL - USA, The Shattered Mirror | For | |
| Martinsburg, WV - USA, Martinsburg by Night | Abstain | |
| Decatur, IL - USA, The Chaos Within | Against | |
| Philadelphia, PA - USA, Honor in the Shadows | Against | |
| Evansville, IN - USA, Paradise Lost | Against | |
| Bartow, FL - USA, Polk County Prophecies | Against | |
| Cedar Rapids, IA - USA, Five Nights | For | While I'm for the intent of this proposal... It does little in the way of preventing the PC from just having the NPC show up directly and using the Elder level disciplines on their behalf. |
| Chicago, IL - USA, Dark Requiem | Against | |
| Indianapolis, IN - USA, Stars Never Rise | Against | |
| Winona, MN - USA, Winona Dark Haven | Abstain | |
| Norwalk, CT - USA, Rails of Revolution | Against | |
| Providence, RI - USA, Hidden Flame | Abstain | |
| Atlanta, GA - USA, Whispers of Atlanta | Against | |
| Griffin, GA - USA, Immortal Nights Theater | Against | |
| Dayton, OH - USA, Dying Embers | Against | |
| Brasília, DF - Brazil, Pacis Aeternae | For | |
| Allentown, PA - USA, Steel Valley by Night | For | |
| Macon, GA - USA, Stolen Hours | Against | I understand and support what this Prop is trying to do. I dislike the language used. First, it denies any benefit of Elder+ Level disciplines even if the purpose of that discipline is to grant lesser powers (See Shared Strength). "No player shall benefit" means that any use of any power to grant any anything simply fails. Second, I dislike that again this is a reach into mommy chronicles and trying to limit what local STs can do with their NPCs in their game. I already see this rule being horribly bent in practical use and find the existence of the already existing bylaw sufficient to achieve the aims of this bylaw, specifically given how bad worded I consider this bylaw change to be. Singular abuse and rules lawyering of existing bylaw is not a reason to create a more stringent, badly worded, upgraded bylaw. |
| Recife, PE - Brazil, Pernambuco by Night: Forever Haunted | For | |
| Cincinnati, OH - USA, Shadows of Cincinnati | Against | |
| Columbus, OH - USA, Columbus in Darkness | Against | |
| Denver, CO - USA, Front Range Sabbat | For | |
| Lewiston/Auburn, ME - USA, Shadows and Light | For | |
| Lexington, KY - USA, Panders Playground | For | |
| Gary, IN - USA, Shattered Souls | Against | Overall, we would have supported this proposal, but we have issue with the wording of "Benefit." "Benefit" is incredibly hard to define fairly from a storytelling perspective. We are also opposed to the idea that NPCs can never use any of the disciplines specifically designed to assist their underlings. |
| Springfield, IL - USA, Capitol City Cauldron | For | |
| Savannah, GA - USA, City of Shadows | Against | |
| Kenosha, WI - USA, Memento Mori | For | |
| Boston, MA - USA, Reclaimed | Against | |
| Green Bay, WI - USA, Shattered Dreams | Against | |
| Columbus, OH - USA, Wyld Prophets | Abstain | |
| Athens, GA - USA, Athens After Dark | Against | |
| Natal, RN - Brazil, Legacy of Blood | Against | Echoing Stolen Hours. |
| Gimli, MB - Canada, Sang Nordique | For | |
| Rohnert Park, CA - USA, Shadows Crossing | For | |
| Ann Arbor, MI - USA, Tower of Broken Glass | For | |
| Northern Virginia, VA - USA, Night Falls | For | |
| Annapolis, MD - USA, Vitae Aeternus | Against | Echoing concerns re: "benefit" |
| Bradenton, FL - USA, Chaos & Entropy | For | |
| Springfield, OH - USA, Ohio Knights Sabbat | Against | |
| Edwardsville, IL - USA, Caught in Eternal Twilight | Abstain | |
| Phoenix, AZ - USA, Unchained Arizona | Against | |
| Chicago, IL - USA, New Moon Rising | Against | While I see potential for abuse, I also see a game line that endended for powers that explicitly grant beyond what a neonate is capable to be an aspect of the Jyhad and the power plays of elders and pawns. In concept, this may be nessecary for games that are out of balance. Currently there is no demonstration or citation against specific games. However there has got to be a balance between the needs of a similar bylaw but respect the spirit of the jyhad. |
| Lakeland, FL - USA, Lagos de los Muertos | Against | |
| Worcester County, MA - USA, Quabbin | Abstain | |
| Gainesville, FL - USA, Won't Back Down | Against | Ibid, Macon. |
| New Rochelle, NY - USA, Seasons of Strange | For | |
| Amador, CA - USA, Gaia’s Call | Against | |
| Peoria, IL - USA, The Far Dawn | Against | Agreeing with Stolen Hours - Macon, GA |
| Bloomington, IL - USA, Zephyr of Darkness | Against | |
| Baltimore, MD - USA, Dark Harbor | Abstain | |
| Salvador, BA - Brazil, Veritas Salvatore | Abstain | |
| Tampa, FL - USA, Orlando: Magic Kingdom | Against | As Macon said. |
We don't need elder disciplines on pcs. Especially for those few who figured out the loophole versus the majority that don't.