Proposal: Recount of elections using IRV
Status message
Displaying output for plurality votingOpen Votes
Proposal Type: Bylaw Revision
Opened: 20-Mar-2018 11:55PM EDT
Closing: 27-Mar-2018 11:55PM EDT
Ohio Knights Sabbat officially proposes that we perform an immediate recount of all Coordinator elections involving 3 or more candidates using Instant Runoff voting, rather than Condorcet.
I don't believe there are any relevant bylaws to quote here, so I'm keeping this simple.
Ryan Dickerson
OKS CM
File / Document: No file attachments for this vote.
Ballot Options For
Against
Abstain
84 out of 155 eligible voters cast their ballot
Against
73% (61 votes)
For
23% (19 votes)
Abstain
5% (4 votes)
| Chronicle/Position | Voted for | Comment |
|---|---|---|
| Dubuque, IA - USA, Kingdom of Ashes | Abstain | |
| New York City, NY - USA, Kings of New York | Against | |
| Los Angeles, CA - USA, La Sangre De Los Angeles | Against | |
| São Paulo, SP - Brazil, São Paulo by Night | For | |
| Rockland, NY - USA, Under The Rock | Against | |
| Saint Paul, MN - USA, Obsidian Towers | Against | The idea of a recount is ridiculous and does more harm than good when the directions were given out ahead of time. There is no justification for this waste of time. |
| Mt. Dora, FL - USA, Mutual Alliance | Against | |
| Mossoro, RN - Brazil, Mossoro by Night | For | |
| Fortaleza, CE - Brazil, Land of The Sun | For | |
| Curitiba, PR - Brazil, Curitiba By Night | For | |
| La Crosse, WI - USA, The Rivers Edge | Abstain | As I am personally affected by the results of this vote I have recused myself from this. Tony Mills our Wraith Coordinator and a player in LaCrosse: The River's Edge will be casting our vote from an appropriate place so that the will of our players is known. Thank you for your understanding |
| Iowa City, IA - USA, Fields of Rage | Against | |
| Dois Vizinhos, PR - Brazil, The Kingdom by Night - Immortal Royalty | For | |
| Cape Cod, MA - USA, Rage Across the Cape | Against | |
| Berkeley, CA - USA, Wasting the Dawn | Against | |
| Stockton, CA - USA, Stockton by Night | Against | |
| Milwaukee, WI - USA, Nocturnal Rapture | Against | |
| Peoria, IL - USA, The Shattered Mirror | Against | |
| Martinsburg, WV - USA, Martinsburg by Night | For | |
| Decatur, IL - USA, The Chaos Within | Against | |
| Tampa, FL - USA, Tampa Bay by Night | Against | |
| Philadelphia, PA - USA, Honor in the Shadows | Against | |
| Cedar Rapids, IA - USA, Five Nights | For | There needed to be TRAINING sent out to the organization as a WHOLE. Not just the CMs. Players cast votes in games, thus they are the defacto voting body and thus they were the ones that needed to know the full extent of this process prior to it occurring. |
| João Pessoa, PB - Brazil, Eternal Shadows | For | |
| Sacramento, CA - USA, Sacramento By Night | Against | |
| Philadelphia, PA - USA, Nusquam | Against | |
| Chicago, IL - USA, Dark Requiem | Against | The bylaws were followed properly and Concorcet-IRV is a valid type of IRV. We dont believe that a recount is appropriate. |
| Fredericksburg, VA - USA, Caine's Chosen: Liberty in Death | Against | Clear it up for next election cycle. Please let's move forward. This comment has been revised 1 time. Click here to see revision history Version 2 dated: Mar 23 2018, 10:10am EDT Clear it up for next election cycle. Please let's move forward. |
| Indianapolis, IN - USA, Stars Never Rise | Against | |
| Winona, MN - USA, Winona Dark Haven | Against | |
| Cedar Falls, IA - USA, Blackhawk Co. by Night | Against | |
| San Francisco, CA - USA, Always Comes Evening | Against | It is absurd and disgraceful that this attempt to rig the system is up for vote, and is in and of itself likely a violation of the Code of Conduct. This comment has been revised 1 time. Click here to see revision history Version 1 dated: Mar 21 2018, 10:32am EDT It is absurd and disgraceful that this attempt to rig the system is up for vote. I would support disciplinary action against anyone who supports this proposal. Version 2 dated: Mar 21 2018, 5:32pm EDT It is absurd and disgraceful that this attempt to rig the system is up for vote, and is in and of itself likely a violation of the Code of Conduct. |
| Providence, RI - USA, Hidden Flame | Against | There are many arguments against this, but to my mind the most compelling is that a summary of the voting system, what would be used, and how it would work was sent out on Feb 14th. I have seen a number of people say "Well, I didn't see that," but it is the CM's responsibility to pay attention to such things. And even if a CM only skims messages, a message specifically relating to the upcoming elections a couple weeks before those elections should be a priority to read. If people did not understand the voting system to be used or had concerns about which of the voting systems allowed by the bylaws was to be used, that was the time to raise the issue. In fact, one game DID raise the issue, and it was clarified how the method being used complied with the bylaws. |
| Atlanta, GA - USA, Whispers of Atlanta | For | |
| Griffin, GA - USA, Immortal Nights Theater | For | |
| Fargo, ND - USA, Within Shadow's Reach | Against | |
| Dayton, OH - USA, Dying Embers | Against | |
| Brasília, DF - Brazil, Pacis Aeternae | For | |
| Allentown, PA - USA, Steel Valley by Night | Against | |
| Macon, GA - USA, Stolen Hours | For | As a matter of principle, people thought the vote was going to be run one way, and while not technically illegal or against by-laws, it was run in a different way. The hostile attitudes of certain Council Members have bordered on violation of the spirit, if not actual words, of the Code of Conduct. Whether this vote succeeds or fails, it is a necessary part of the system to have faith in the system. People who see and promote this as some attempt to end-run the system do not understand that to many the original vote method was an end-run itself, and that this vote successful or not is required to attempt to return to having faith in the system. Without that faith, the entire org will break down, and the org does not need another reason to schism and divide itself. Our goal should be mutual enjoyment, and teamwork, this vote has brought out some of the worst qualities in certain people, but hopefully we can recover and move forward together as an org. |
| Recife, PE - Brazil, Pernambuco by Night: Forever Haunted | For | |
| Cincinnati, OH - USA, Shadows of Cincinnati | Against | |
| Madison, Wi - USA, Black Crusade | Against | |
| Lancaster, OH - USA, Never Ending Nights | Against | Yeahhh that's a hard no from NEN. The results were not difficult to understand, making this prop ridiculous. |
| Columbus, OH - USA, Columbus in Darkness | For | |
| Denver, CO - USA, Front Range Sabbat | For | The Web team could create a database query result/view (MySQL, since this site uses a PHP framework) inside a results page of the election results, if transparency is necessary to validate any election result. This comment has been revised 1 time. Click here to see revision history Version 1 dated: Mar 24 2018, 11:50pm EDT A competent Web team could create a database query result/view (MySQL, since this site uses a PHP framework) inside a results page of the election results, if transparency is necessary to validate any election result. Version 2 dated: Mar 26 2018, 11:25am EDT The Web team could create a database query result/view (MySQL, since this site uses a PHP framework) inside a results page of the election results, if transparency is necessary to validate any election result. |
| Ouro Preto, MG - Brazil, Dying of the Light | Against | You cant change the rules after the race is over. It was previously warned on how it would work, explained how the math works and now, after everything it is just unfair with the candidates and the org this done. And realize that this is not a recount, is a change of methodology AFTER everything was collected. It is just plain wrong. |
| Vitória, ES - Brazil, Blood and Darkness | For | |
| Portland, ME - USA, Blackened Veins | Abstain | I am abstaining as I am torn. First, we need this over and done with. That said, this is wrong. Condorcet voting is, indeed allowed by the bylaws, however, Condorcet Voting is, of course, more complex that Council understands. Further, Instant-Runoff Voting is both a Voting Type and a Type of Vote. So, according to our bylaws, 3.C.ii we can use Condorcet Voting OR Instant-Runoff Voting. So far so good. UNTIL we look at 4.B.viii, "The nominee carrying the most votes on Council shall become Coordinator ..." Unfortunately, here Condorcet Voting fails - and because of that we should have used Instant-Runoff Voting, which cannot, by definition, violate 4.B.viii. When I discussed this with another CM, one who's bylaw fu far outstrips my own, that CM said, were we in a court of law, I would win my case. Too bad logic and bylaws mean little on council. |
| Lewiston/Auburn, ME - USA, Shadows and Light | Against | |
| Lexington, KY - USA, Panders Playground | Against | Unanimous Player base/ST staff opinon. |
| Gary, IN - USA, Shattered Souls | Against | |
| Springfield, IL - USA, Capitol City Cauldron | Against | It was clearly stated that Condorcet would be used for this election. Our bylaws CLEARLY STATE that Condorcet is an acceptable voting method to use. Why are we bogging council down with these things? |
| Savannah, GA - USA, City of Shadows | Against | |
| Alto Tietê, SP - Brazil, Sang Royal | For | |
| Vale do Paraíba, SP - Brazil, Vale Sangrento | For | |
| Washington, DC - USA, Shadows on the Mall | Against | |
| Kenosha, WI - USA, Memento Mori | Against | |
| Boston, MA - USA, Reclaimed | Against | To those who didn't understand, CMs learn to read. You failed your playerbase, not the system. |
| Los Angeles, CA - USA, Dark Side of the Moon | Against | |
| Green Bay, WI - USA, Shattered Dreams | Against | Put a lot of thought and consideration into this; spoke to games ST's several times; it has been decided the game will vote against the recount and move forward with the hope that, considering all the difficulties caused, the Condorcet System will, in the future, be removed so there are no further complications/misunderstandings. |
| Columbus, OH - USA, Wyld Prophets | Against | |
| Athens, GA - USA, Athens After Dark | Against | |
| Natal, RN - Brazil, Legacy of Blood | Against | |
| Gimli, MB - Canada, Sang Nordique | Against | Overwhelming Player Vote - We used Condorcet for the AHC Elections in the 2016 and 2017 elections without a complaint. Why is it a problem now? |
| St. Augustine, FL - USA, On Haunted Ground | Against | |
| Rohnert Park, CA - USA, Shadows Crossing | Against | |
| Ann Arbor, MI - USA, Tower of Broken Glass | Against | No bylaws were broken. An email was sent out before elections explaining the method used and there were no objections at that time. I see no reason for a recount. |
| Northern Virginia, VA - USA, Night Falls | Against | Player decision. |
| Annapolis, MD - USA, Vitae Aeternus | Against | |
| Bradenton, FL - USA, Chaos & Entropy | Against | |
| Springfield, OH - USA, Ohio Knights Sabbat | For | |
| Chicago, IL - USA, New Moon Rising | Against | |
| Worcester County, MA - USA, Quabbin | Against | |
| Gainesville, FL - USA, Won't Back Down | Against | Let this term run it's course, and never let Condorcet darken our door again. It's an obscure system that isn't used by anything other than the fringe for a reason. |
| Hartford, CT - USA, Dark Colony | Against | |
| Indianapolis, IN - USA, Past is Prologue | Against | |
| Lancaster, OH - USA, Mountains Dark Heart | Against | |
| New Rochelle, NY - USA, Seasons of Strange | Against | |
| Peoria, IL - USA, The Far Dawn | Against | May change pending player-base feedback. |
| Nashville, IN - USA, Tea With Dragons | Against | |
| Baltimore, MD - USA, Dark Harbor | Against | |
| Tampa, FL - USA, Orlando: Magic Kingdom | Against | I have made this administrative decision without consulting the player base. I do not know whether this prop was put up due to sour grapes as some have suggested. I do know that -I- was unaware that we were using condorcet for the three people races as i never received the email about it from Jon Slack. I'll blame that on Gmail. What I will say about this vote is this, it has been divisive and the discussion seems to be damaging to us as a community. I do not like Condorcet. It is a system that I am incapable of understanding due to a math related learning disability. It is however, in the bylaws as a valid system to use and while I think it should be removed, it makes this round of elections valid. |
| Wraith | Abstain | Voting on behalf of cm who recused himself |
Clear it up for next election cycle. Please let's move forward.