Extra Status for Lasombra - Definition
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Proposal Type: Bylaw Revision
Opened: 25-Jul-2002 1:00AM EDT
Closing: 23-Jul-2002 1:00AM EDT
1.Reason for Vote: An objection was filed by Craig Coyne, CM of Gimli, concerning:
I. Lasombra Antitribu Clan Advantage
The free Status Trait gained by the Lasombra Antitribu is "Loyal." This trait is given at Character Generation as part of the Clan Advantage. This Status Trait counts toward the maximum of 6 Personal Status able to be held by OWbN characters, per the By-Laws. This Status can be stripped just like any other.
It is highly recommended that the status trait representing the clan advantage be the last thing stripped before Acknowledgement.
Coordinator's Notes: This area of the Status Packet (found on page 7) was returned to the Status Coordinator and Sub Coordinators. The decision was made to adhere to the ruling from Laws of the Night, Revised.
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Ballot Options For
Abstain
Against
1 out of 160 eligible voters cast their ballot
Against
62% (32 votes)
For
31% (16 votes)
Abstain
8% (4 votes)
| Chronicle/Position | Voted for | Comment |
|---|---|---|
| New York City, NY - USA, Kings of New York | Against | The edict was silly. This vote is sillier. The Lasombra Antitribu are shat on enough, give them the dignity that they deserve. Whatever the intent of this vote... it's too easy to twist it back and shit on the darkies even more. See Night... Falls |
| Saint Paul, MN - USA, Obsidian Towers | Against | |
| Chicago, IL - USA, Dark Requiem | Against | Going with Carpe. No loss of Clan Advantage |
| Fredericksburg, VA - USA, Caine's Chosen: Liberty in Death | Against | The Ventrue and Brujah ''Advantages'' that Columbus states are not really advantages but genre notes in their respective clan books. Not all Brujah or Ventrue have access to those advanatges. So no comparison to a Laws of The Night Revised Camarilla Clan Advantage in my mind. |
| Norwalk, CT - USA, Rails of Revolution | Against | |
| Cleveland, OH - USA, Carpe Noctum | Against | Again with the it's the only clan advantage that can be taken away easily... so no. It would be better if it was percieved, or status only strippable by Clan Elders. So you can still lose it, but not quite so easily. |
| Cincinnati, OH - USA, Shadows of Cincinnati | Against | Given the severe disagreements on the issue this proposal should be more clearly written to better clarify, and not just add, to the meaning behind the advantage. |
| Columbus, OH - USA, Columbus in Darkness | For | Where I understand Carpe, are we next going to change the clan advantage for Ventrue so they can never be stripped of money? The clan advantage, as written in LotN:R states ''All Lasombra automatically gain one free status trait.'' Just like the Tremere advantage says ''all Tremere gain...one Occult Influence automatically.'' Influence can be stripped or stolen, as can status. Why do you want the Lasombra to be the only clan with an ammended clan advantage? What sense does it make for a Lasombra to have a potential for more Cam status than a Ventrue? No Cam6 clan in genre would stand for that. |
| Springfield, IL - USA, Capitol City Cauldron | Against | we will not vote for a proposal that nearly eliminates a clan's advantage, or atleast detrimentally weakens it. |
| Phoenix, AZ - USA, Secundus Surrectum | For | We agree with Columbus in Darkness. |
| Iowa City, IA - USA, L'Ange Noir | Abstain | |
| Northern Virginia, VA - USA, Night Falls | Against | I Agree with Carpe. I'd rather see it run similar to the ''reputation'' merit as a perceived status that can't ever be lost. Pedder's IC announcement not withstanding, it seems silly that this clan advantage can be removed in one second where as others are mostly permanent. Update For Columbus: From LtNR pg.41 ''all Ventrue characters begin play with an extra Trait of the Resources Background that can never be lost permanantly.'' While other clan advantages grant a free level of influence that can be removed in play, most clans ( Brujah, Tremere, Followers of Set) also gain a non-removable advantage such as an ability corresponding to the free influence. Others such as Assamites, and Malkavians gain different, yet still non-removable advantages. There's a similar structure including in one case a bonus health level in place for the tribes in Werewolf Larp. Thus it seems ridiculous to me to have a clan where both of it's advantages can be removed quite easily in play. Perhaps, if every Lasombra AT didn't end up teaching Obtenebration to any character with xp, I'd consider that an advantage but as it stands when games with no Lasombra AT have characters with both intermediate levels of Obtenebration I say at least make them equal. The setting is designed to be unfair. The rules shouldn't be. |
| Edwardsville, IL - USA, Caught in Eternal Twilight | Against | The Status in question should be above and beyond the six max, and should not be strippable. |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | Against | The clan advantage should not be easy to take away. |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | Against | The clan advantage should not be easy to take away. |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | Against | See Prestigious Sire comments. |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | Against | See Prestigious Sire comments. |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | Against | We agree that a clan advantage should not be so easily lost. We would agree more to a ''Percieved'' status trait, similar to Prestigious sire. |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | Against | We agree that a clan advantage should not be so easily lost. We would agree more to a ''Percieved'' status trait, similar to Prestigious sire. |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | For | |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | For | |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | Against | I am against it, but not for the same reason as many. I feel no reason why it should be a specific status, as opposed to picked by the PC or ST. I Play a Lasombra, and have no problem with an adavntage that can be yanked at a moment (if I can't play up to my status to not have it yanked, I don't deserve to play the most elitist clan in WW) Make it a free status, not just loyal, and I will support it. Lasombra get extra status because the tend to be excellent individuals, exceptional specimens of dignity and power. Not just becasue they are ''loyal'' (dogs are loyal, the Lasombra are wise) |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | Against | I am against it, but not for the same reason as many. I feel no reason why it should be a specific status, as opposed to picked by the PC or ST. I Play a Lasombra, and have no problem with an adavntage that can be yanked at a moment (if I can't play up to my status to not have it yanked, I don't deserve to play the most elitist clan in WW) Make it a free status, not just loyal, and I will support it. Lasombra get extra status because the tend to be excellent individuals, exceptional specimens of dignity and power. Not just becasue they are ''loyal'' (dogs are loyal, the Lasombra are wise) |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | Abstain | Basically, because I play a Lasombra AT. WE gave hiem ''Respected'' as most of the books tend to lean that way...The way I figure it? If someone strips THAT status, the backlash from the Clan could be interesting...After all. ''Respected as member of Clan Lasombra'' want to fuck with that big boy? |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | Abstain | Basically, because I play a Lasombra AT. WE gave hiem ''Respected'' as most of the books tend to lean that way...The way I figure it? If someone strips THAT status, the backlash from the Clan could be interesting...After all. ''Respected as member of Clan Lasombra'' want to fuck with that big boy? |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | For | Don't really know about this one. If a Lasombra anti-tribu diablerizes a Cam prince he can't loose his clan advantage? |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | For | Don't really know about this one. If a Lasombra anti-tribu diablerizes a Cam prince he can't loose his clan advantage? |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | For | The status should be just like other status. Why give a shortbus Lasombra Anti that somehow slips through more leeway? |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | For | The status should be just like other status. Why give a shortbus Lasombra Anti that somehow slips through more leeway? |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | For | Pedder's June 7, 2002 admendment gives this status backing in-game/IC and it's losable, so I have no problem with it. -Brian Becker |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | For | Pedder's June 7, 2002 admendment gives this status backing in-game/IC and it's losable, so I have no problem with it. -Brian Becker |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | For | |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | For | |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | For | Oh come on. They are already a LASOMBRA in the Camarilla!What more advantage do they need? The extra Status is nice, but being a Lasombra who is not killed on sight by cammies is really enough...Besides, it's not like you can never get another status after losing one. Geesh, what's the big deal? |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | For | Oh come on. They are already a LASOMBRA in the Camarilla!What more advantage do they need? The extra Status is nice, but being a Lasombra who is not killed on sight by cammies is really enough...Besides, it's not like you can never get another status after losing one. Geesh, what's the big deal? |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | Against | see night... falls |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | Against | see night... falls |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | Against | It's your clan regardless of who strips it from you... treat it as the reputation merit, you can't lose it. Revise it to state such and we'll be all for it. |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | Against | It's your clan regardless of who strips it from you... treat it as the reputation merit, you can't lose it. Revise it to state such and we'll be all for it. |