Elder Powers v3
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Displaying output for plurality votingOpen Votes
Proposal Type: Bylaw Revision
Opened: 22-Nov-2005 1:00AM EST
Closing: 29-Nov-2005 1:00AM EST
I propose that section 4a of the Character Regulation Bylaws be replaced with:--------------------
The highest attainable level of any Discipline a player character may attain is Elder, as long as the character is of an appropriate generation and meets the following requirements:
To learn an Elder discipline, a character must spend six months learning the Elder Power. During the learning time no other disciplines may be purchased.
The character must have been in play as an 8th generation character for at least a year and during the time they are learning the Elder Power they may not be inactive.
A player character with an Elder Level Discipline may not teach another player character the advanced level of the discipline they have at Elder Level.
All of the player characters in clan disciplines must be at Advanced before the purchase of an Elder discipline is allowed.
A player character may have only one Elder Level Discipline without a R&U rare category vote.
All player characters with an Elder Level Discipline must be logged with the Archivist.
Elder Disciplines that do not have a MET conversion are disallowed, unless a Elder Discipline Genre Packet is passed by the OWBN Council.
--------------------
As an explaination for the appearance and disappearance of Elder Powers, the Time of Thin Blood should be used to explain the discrepancies. Any character that previously had an Elder Power may re-purchase if it was refunded or simply have it back if it was taken away with no compensation and as long as the manner in which they learned it conforms to the guidelines above.
File / Document: No file attachments for this vote.
Ballot Options No
Yes
Abstain
Abstain
1 out of 155 eligible voters cast their ballot
No
67% (64 votes)
Yes
27% (26 votes)
Abstain
6% (6 votes)
Abstain
0% (0 votes)
| Chronicle/Position | Voted for | Comment |
|---|---|---|
| Paducah, KY: Edge of Chaos | No | |
| New York City, NY - USA, Kings of New York | No | 8th gen already gets a higher trait max, higher blood capacity, can spend more blood a round, and have a significant advantage with Dominate, I see no reason to add this benefit to the mix. |
| Los Angeles, CA - USA, La Sangre De Los Angeles | No | what's a diarama? |
| Saint Paul, MN - USA, Obsidian Towers | No | |
| Iowa City, IA - USA, Fields of Rage | No | This game would rather not see a need to escalate NPCs in order to be challenging for PCs with Elder level disciplines. Also, just because a book states it can be allowed, does not mean we have to allow it in this Org. |
| Milwaukee, WI - USA, Nocturnal Rapture | No | |
| Cleveland, OH - USA, An Uncertain Destiny | No | After talking with players, (many of whom play vampire) elder level disciplines are not needed and add a difficult and at times impossibly disruptive influence to games. Therefore, we vote no. |
| Duluth, MN - USA, Thicker than Blood | No | |
| Philadelphia, PA - USA, Nusquam | No | |
| Chicago, IL - USA, Dark Requiem | No | Per ST vote and RESOUNDING player outcry! |
| Fredericksburg, VA - USA, Caine's Chosen: Liberty in Death | Yes | This is a matter of individual chronicle rights. Each game should have the option of including access to this power level or not. It shouldn't be up to the org to decide such things but should be done at the game level. If we cannot trust our supporting STs to know when to say ''no,'' how can we trust them to be responsible in other situations. |
| Indianapolis, IN - USA, Stars Never Rise | No | Even though my suggestions were in the prop itself, my game as a whole, (including those that have had and originally lost disciplines because of vote that took them away once) - voted an overwhelming hell no! to elder disciplines ever coming back. |
| Winona, MN - USA, Winona Dark Haven | No | The majority of our players are against this proposal. |
| Auburn, CA - USA, Lux Tenebras | Yes | Per the instruction of the Storyteller staff, Lux Tenebras votes Yes with the following note: ''Powerful PCs should be regulated by the STs of the games they play in.'' |
| Norwalk, CT - USA, Rails of Revolution | Yes | It is our belief that this sort of thing should not be disallowed by the Org as a whole, and should be left on the individual Chronicle level to allow or disallow as they see fit. If people are worried about another game's players having an ''unfair advantage'' over their game's player when visiting or, preferably, actually experience one (instead of saying no to it in concept without actual data or experience on that matter), tell the players to vote with their feet. The STs should notice the sudden drop off of attendance and inquire why. |
| San Francisco, CA - USA, Always Comes Evening | No | As per vote from our players. |
| Providence, RI - USA, Hidden Flame | Yes | I think that Elder powers should be allowed for 8th gens, but I think that this proposal creates so much paperwork and tracking in an attempt to limit it as to be impossible to enforce. However, I am voting yes to show support for at least the concept. It should be left to individual games to decide, since it is specifically printed material in multiple MET rulebooks. This org needs to remember that games come first, not the org. That is what has made the org successful in the past, and that's what will keep it alive if it's going to continue. |
| Atlanta, GA - USA, Whispers of Atlanta | Abstain | I love the idea that chronicles dictate what works best in their chronicle, and if ELD's work, then I am all for it. If the PC travels, the other chronicles have the right to say no, and everyone is happy. What I hate is this bastardized ''cool enough to allow chronicles to dictate what works best, but dumbed down for the masses enough to maybe pass council'' proposal. Come up with something real. |
| Fargo, ND - USA, Within Shadow's Reach | No | Per ST vote. We do not believe, as a PC in OWbN should not be en elder by age, that any PC should be able to attain elder level diciplines. |
| Cleveland, OH - USA, Carpe Noctum | Yes | This is something that should be left to each game. I have no problam telling anyone NO. |
| Dayton, OH - USA, Dying Embers | Yes | |
| Macon, GA - USA, Stolen Hours | Yes | Like others have already mentioned, I don't have any problem saying no to my players or visiting players, but I won't tell another game what works for them. |
| Winchester, VA: Sins in the Valley | No | Again this Org cannot abide by the KISS method. How bout just no elder powers at all. Looks like more and more paperwork and archived PC's. Plus PC's who had them can now have them back like nothing happened. This is ill thought out and Dumb. |
| Cincinnati, OH - USA, Shadows of Cincinnati | Yes | |
| Columbus, OH - USA, Columbus in Darkness | No | By Storyteller consensus, and Player Rep recommendation. |
| Springfield, IL - USA, Capitol City Cauldron | No | |
| Washington, DC - USA, Shadows on the Mall | No | Personally I support the use of elder powers when it's done in a limited, and controlled manner. However I've come to realize that because there's such an overwhelming lack of responsibility among the Storytellers of OWbN that we need to impose the many restictive rules upon this proposal that could/should have been part of each games house rules. It's better to just keep them off the table, than have to deal with the inevitable whining that will follow due to Storyteller's who lack the ability or willingness to say ''no''. And for the record White-Wolf can call this a ''typo'' all they want, the fact remains they posted the chart of available disciplines levels by generation in multiple books without changing it. |
| Amador, CA - USA, River of Shadows | Yes | |
| Kenosha, WI - USA, Memento Mori | No | Yeah, sure, keep your house rules out of my game. But - PCs can only be as low as 8th generation. PCs can only have six personal status. PCs can only gain 8 xp per month. There should be a few simple rules that everyone recognizes as guidelines. What discipline levels are available to PCs should certainly be one of them. |
| Green Bay, WI - USA, Shattered Dreams | No | |
| Harrisonburg, VA: Death in the Valley | Abstain | Our game population has a large number of vampire players. Our game voted, and was honestly torn 50/50. As such, because we are a Garou Chronicle, we are abstaining on this vampire issue. |
| Gimli, MB - Canada, Sang Nordique | No | |
| Iowa City, IA - USA, L'Ange Noir | No | Wallace loves cheese, but Gromit knows better and feeds him veggies. |
| St. Augustine, FL - USA, On Haunted Ground | Yes | full reasoning to be expounded on soon... |
| Annapolis, MD - USA, Vitae Aeternus | No | I would support this vote if it were just for reinstating Elder Powers in OWBN. However I do not support the rules that this vote imposes upon the individual games. In my humble opinion, it is up to each individual game on whether or not to allow elder powers. Also it's up to each individual game on how to govern the learning times and rules for those powers. So right now i must vote no. However should this vote come up again without the strings attached, I would be willing to vote yes. |
| Bradenton, FL - USA, Chaos & Entropy | Yes | What our players and staff disagree with most is the fact that PC elder powers are banned, but there is no restriction on 8th gen NPCs and elder powers. We are voting Yes on this because our staff understands and exercises game balance and like LONE we have no problems telling players NO! |
| Edwardsville, IL - USA, Caught in Eternal Twilight | Yes | This SHOULD be a House Rule. Period. We've been having more and more things be added to the bylaws for no reason other than STs who can't say ''no''. I believe that even if this passes (which it probably won't), we will still not be allowing Elder powers in our game for PCs. But just because you can't say ''no'' to your players doesn't mean you should make up rules and force others to follow them due to your inability to say ''no''. |
| AHC 2 | No | The powers of the Elders should be in the hands of the Elders. Until OWBN allows true Elders in game, let them eat cake. |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | No | |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | No | |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | No | |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | No | |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | No | |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | No | |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | No | We don't need to give yet another reason for people to diablarize down to 8th generation. |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | No | We don't need to give yet another reason for people to diablarize down to 8th generation. |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | No | |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | No | |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | No | 8th gens were never intended to have powers above level 5, Advanced. Yes, it says so 'in the book' but our core book for Vampire is LOTN: Revised, which does not contain Elder powers. Lastly, I make the historical argument: The reason PCs are limited to 8th Generation is so that PCs could not have Elder level powers. The reason this was done is that there were several disruptive 7th Gen PCs at the time in OWBN who had Elder powers (non-published powers, as the MET Elder Powers hadn't been published yet). If we want to allow PCs Elder Powers, let's let players play 7th Gen characters. |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | No | 8th gens were never intended to have powers above level 5, Advanced. Yes, it says so 'in the book' but our core book for Vampire is LOTN: Revised, which does not contain Elder powers. Lastly, I make the historical argument: The reason PCs are limited to 8th Generation is so that PCs could not have Elder level powers. The reason this was done is that there were several disruptive 7th Gen PCs at the time in OWBN who had Elder powers (non-published powers, as the MET Elder Powers hadn't been published yet). If we want to allow PCs Elder Powers, let's let players play 7th Gen characters. |
| LONE | Yes | Sure.If we don't want our players to have them we can just say no. If we don't weant your players to have them, we can still JUST SAY NO. :-) |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | No | No. Or maybe a Hell No even (for reasons expressed by Geoff on the boards ad infinitum). |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | No | No. Or maybe a Hell No even (for reasons expressed by Geoff on the boards ad infinitum). |
| Reclamation | No | As per the overall comments received from our player base. |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | Abstain | |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | Abstain |