[Administrative Proposal] Additions to Character Regulation Bylaw 7.A, In-Clan Combo Discipline teaching
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Displaying output for plurality votingOpen Votes
Proposal Type: Bylaw Revision
Opened: 05-Feb-2009 1:00AM EST
Closing: 12-Feb-2009 1:00AM EST
With regards to this Bylaw:
"7) Teaching Disciplines
A) While any vampire can learn any discipline, they must learn out-of-clan disciplines from a
vampire who possesses that discipline in-clan unless otherwise noted in the bylaws or clan
genre packets."
I propose the following line be added to the Bylaws:
"7.A.i. This applies to Combination Disciplines as follows: To teach a combination discipline, the teacher must have at least one of the prerequisite disciplines in-clan; The one being taught must have the requisite disciplines at the appropriate level.
7.A.ii. The level of a combination discipline is equal to its highest level component discipline; as such those with advanced discipline components can only be taught by those with Elder level disciplines."
Reason:
Somehow some players appear to forget that Combos are still disciplines subject to the regulation of the Bylaws and what can be taught under Character Regulation Bylaw 7.A. This should clear this up nicely.
Jenn Louise
OWbN Head Coordinator
"Of course I have (gone mad with power), have you ever tried going mad without power? Its boring, no one listens to you."
Adidas shoesnike fashion
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Ballot Options Against
For
Abstain
1 out of 155 eligible voters cast their ballot
For
55% (74 votes)
Against
37% (50 votes)
Abstain
7% (10 votes)
| Chronicle/Position | Voted for | Comment |
|---|---|---|
| Carbondale, IL, USA: Forgotten Court | Against | |
| Paducah, KY: Edge of Chaos | For | |
| Dubuque, IA - USA, Kingdom of Ashes | For | I'm all for cutting down on some of the stupid in the Org |
| St. Louis, MO - USA, Shadows of St. Louis | For | This needed to be in effect so very long ago... Advanced Powers require an Elder to teach you if you don't have direct access to them per your Blood. Well guess what? Combinations do not come naturally. They have to be learned. You don't get Puissance then follow it right up with Burning Wrath. That's not how it works. Combinations are potent enough that they need have some sort of regulation. This regulation is enough to restrict them from being widespread, but no so restricted that you can't get them at all. |
| Los Angeles, CA - USA, La Sangre De Los Angeles | Against | |
| Rio Grande, RS - Brazil, Sobre a Areia Sempre Hostil | For | |
| Bloomington, IN - USA, Fallen Idols | Against | Agree with Muerte Libre.We can agree with 7.A.i as this is the House rule we use for learning combos.But we feel that with combos you are learning how to use what you already have in a different way, not something completely new. |
| Saint Paul, MN - USA, Obsidian Towers | Against | |
| Mt. Dora, FL - USA, Mutual Alliance | Against | Muerte Libre's and Stolen Hours' CMs have already hit on what needs to be said. |
| Sheboygan, WI - USA, Blood on the Lake | Against | See Muerte Libre. |
| La Crosse, WI - USA, The Rivers Edge | For | This prop directly reflects our current house rules regulating Combo Disciplines. However it is our hope this will not lead to additional regulation without proven problems. |
| Iowa City, IA - USA, Fields of Rage | Abstain | |
| Buffalo, NY - USA, Frozen Queen | For | |
| Berkeley, CA - USA, Wasting the Dawn | For | Puts more power in the hands of the Storytellers/Coords that control the Elders. I love this one. |
| Stockton, CA - USA, Stockton by Night | For | |
| Milwaukee, WI - USA, Nocturnal Rapture | Against | |
| Decatur, IL - USA, The Chaos Within | Against | [7.A.i. ... The one being taught must have the requisite disciplines at the appropriate level. ] Per this wording, anyone can learn nearly anything. It's only when they'd want to teach that the in-clan pre-requisite comes into play. Also, there is no mention about requirements to create a combo power. |
| Tampa, FL - USA, Tampa Bay by Night | Against | |
| Promise, CA: Broken Promises | Against | Muerte Libre hit the nail on the head. And honestly, you don't want to make the Anarchs angry. You won't like them when they're angry. |
| Cleveland, OH - USA, An Uncertain Destiny | Abstain | Per Player Input - Not Our Genre |
| Cedar Rapids, IA - USA, Five Nights | For | |
| Sacramento, CA - USA, Sacramento By Night | For | All ready in our house rules... |
| Duluth, MN - USA, Thicker than Blood | Against | |
| Philadelphia, PA - USA, Nusquam | For | |
| Chicago, IL - USA, Dark Requiem | For | |
| Plainfield, IL - USA, Obsidian Shadows | For | |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | For | |
| Orange County, CA: Muerte Libre | Against | We can't get behind this. Re: City of Springs, page 55 of the Anarch Guide DOES NOT state anything about requiring elder teachers for those seeking ''advanced'' disciplines. They are ''advanced'' *only* for comparison of power levels. Further, this will only encourage ''pocket mentors'' (as mentioned) and in some games, that won't happen. We can agree with 7.A.i but are opposed to 7.A.ii and as such have to vote against both elements. |
| Indianapolis, IN - USA, Stars Never Rise | Against | |
| Winona, MN - USA, Winona Dark Haven | For | |
| Auburn, CA - USA, Lux Tenebras | For | |
| Norwalk, CT - USA, Rails of Revolution | Against | I like the first part. Dislike the second part. I still think this is something that is best left to individual chronicles to implement. |
| San Francisco, CA - USA, Always Comes Evening | For | Per current result of Player vote. |
| Providence, RI - USA, Hidden Flame | Abstain | |
| Atlanta, GA - USA, Whispers of Atlanta | For | Echoing Head Coordinator. |
| Fargo, ND - USA, Within Shadow's Reach | For | |
| Dayton, OH - USA, Dying Embers | For | |
| Brasília, DF - Brazil, Pacis Aeternae | For | |
| Allentown, PA - USA, Steel Valley by Night | For | |
| Macon, GA - USA, Stolen Hours | Against | Agree with Muerte Libre. In response to HC's comment, I feel that combos are in fact ''their own new type of discipline'' as they break at least three of the usual discipline learning rules (you need a teacher even if it's in-clan, same cost for in or out of clan, learn out of order). |
| Cincinnati, OH - USA, Shadows of Cincinnati | Against | The second part is our hang up as well. |
| Columbus, OH - USA, Columbus in Darkness | For | |
| Portland, ME - USA, Blackened Veins | Against | I agree with the addition that one of the Disciplines must be In-Clan (it has been in our House Rules from day 1), but the Discipline Level requirement doesn't sit right with me or my Staff. I would rather see restrictions as to who can teach based on Clan or Sect (or regulated otherwise by Genre Packets from the appropriate Coords for things like Archons/Combos, Sabbat, Anarch, Primogen). |
| Lexington, KY - USA, Panders Playground | Against | |
| Gary, IN - USA, Shattered Souls | For | |
| Washington, DC - USA, Shadows on the Mall | For | |
| Phoenix, AZ - USA, Secundus Surrectum | For | |
| Amador, CA - USA, River of Shadows | For | |
| Kenosha, WI - USA, Memento Mori | For | |
| Rio de Janeiro, RJ - Brazil, City of Wonders | For | |
| Green Bay, WI - USA, Shattered Dreams | Against | See Muerte Libre. |
| New Orleans, LA - USA, Long Night | Against | I think it would only be fair to run 7.A.i and to 7.A.ii on separate votes. First, some people would be unable to teach their own created combo disciplines. Example, Smiling Jack, by most repute a Brujah, has a combo discipline called Smiling Jack's Trick. This uses Obfuscate and Dominate. Neither is in-clan for the creator of the discipline. Second, the sect which has the most combo disciplines and the most sharing of them is the Anarchs. A large number of their combos require advanced disciplines. Anarchs have few elders and therefore a vast majority of their combos would all die. I strongly recommend a rewrite on this proposal and that those who already voted reexamine what this proposal would mean. |
| Natal, RN - Brazil, Legacy of Blood | Against | Echo Muerte Libre.I agree Combos are still discipline subject in some way, but I can't agree to put them in the same spot. |
| Gimli, MB - Canada, Sang Nordique | For | |
| Iowa City, IA - USA, L'Ange Noir | Against | |
| St. Augustine, FL - USA, On Haunted Ground | For | this seems so obvious, even Shanghai Kelly would probably agree. |
| Northern Virginia, VA - USA, Night Falls | For | |
| Annapolis, MD - USA, Vitae Aeternus | Against | |
| Head Coord | For | I am adding this clarification to the Bylaw because Combination Disciplines aren't their own new type of discipline, but are beholden to the discipline that they originate from. (Example: True Tongue requires Dominate 2 & Presence 2. This addition would require that the teacher have at least either Dominate or Presence as an in-Clan for the purposes of teaching, as Bylaw 7.A requires disciplines themselves to be in-Clan for the purposes of teaching.) |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | For | As this bylaw only restricts the Teaching of the combi's and not learning it i am for it. Additionally to all those crying ''Interpretation'' read the anarch guide, the only core MET source for learning of any combination disciplines its right there. |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | For | As this bylaw only restricts the Teaching of the combi's and not learning it i am for it. Additionally to all those crying ''Interpretation'' read the anarch guide, the only core MET source for learning of any combination disciplines its right there. |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | Against | I don't agree that combos with advanced powers as prereqs are themselves advanced disciplines. Most anarchs are not elders and there for many of these combos would be nearly unattainable by the anarchs themselves which makes no sense for their genre. |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | Against | I don't agree that combos with advanced powers as prereqs are themselves advanced disciplines. Most anarchs are not elders and there for many of these combos would be nearly unattainable by the anarchs themselves which makes no sense for their genre. |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | For | |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | For | |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | For | |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | For | |
| Para | Abstain | We think that it is a good idea, but with some changes would be better. First I think the discipline to be considered the In-clan should be the Highest one, not just anyone, for example a Combination with Pot 1 and Cel 3(just example), the teacher should have celerity as In-clan. We do disagree with the second part, cause you already know the discipline level 5, you just need to know how to use it together with another one, for that I don |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | Against | We're against anything that eliminates roleplay from our game and forces people to go for pocket mentors. (No 7th Gen or lower NPC's in our game) |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | Against | We're against anything that eliminates roleplay from our game and forces people to go for pocket mentors. (No 7th Gen or lower NPC's in our game) |
| Reclamation | Abstain | It is a vampire issue , so we will abstain. (am for it though) |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | For | I'm not seeing how people could teach something they just didn't know. |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | For | I'm not seeing how people could teach something they just didn't know. |