8th Generation cannot teach Advanced
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Displaying output for plurality votingOpen Votes
Proposal Type: Bylaw Revision
Opened: 01-Nov-2002 12:00AM EST
Closing: 06-Nov-2002 1:00AM EST
Proposal:
8th generation Characters, both NPC &PC, with Elder level and/or Master
Level(Laws of Elysium) cannot teach Advanced (Dot 5) Disciplines.
The teaching of Advanced disciplines is henceforth the
domain of 7th generation & below NPCs only. This
is intended to eliminate complaints that there are too
many teachers for out of clan advanced disciplines, as
well as to restrict the right to teach Advanced
Disciplines to ST and Coord NPCs.
File / Document: No file attachments for this vote.
Ballot Options For
Abstain
Against
1 out of 155 eligible voters cast their ballot
Against
56% (36 votes)
For
34% (22 votes)
Abstain
9% (6 votes)
| Chronicle/Position | Voted for | Comment |
|---|---|---|
| Saint Paul, MN - USA, Obsidian Towers | For | |
| Berkeley, CA - USA, Wasting the Dawn | Against | |
| Stockton, CA - USA, Stockton by Night | Against | If it were 8th Gen PCs, we'd have no problems. |
| Milwaukee, WI - USA, Nocturnal Rapture | Against | Upto to house rules damn it! |
| Chicago, IL - USA, Dark Requiem | For | This is why we have a Cap at 8th Gen not 7th. Take that away and we go back to 2nd ed. |
| Fredericksburg, VA - USA, Caine's Chosen: Liberty in Death | Against | I asked for a slight moratorium on stuff like this. Till after Coord elections, when more reasoned approaches can be discussed. |
| Norwalk, CT - USA, Rails of Revolution | For | |
| San Francisco, CA - USA, Always Comes Evening | Abstain | Too many people feel too strongly about this issue each way, and for such a variety of reasons. |
| Providence, RI - USA, Hidden Flame | Against | Well, I agree with most of what is written above (barring the last two or three). The proposal definately needs to be reworded before it's approved. |
| Cleveland, OH - USA, Carpe Noctum | Against | As much as it pains me to vote no on this I can not support the current wording. I believe that it should simply ban the teaching of Advanced disciplines by 8th generation PCs. |
| Cincinnati, OH - USA, Shadows of Cincinnati | Against | This is the most poorly worded thing I have had the displeasure to read in awhile. This was argued against on the ST list to apparently no end, even as a conscensus was reached, and I cannot abide voting yes. If this does become law, howeever, I will carry it like the sword it is meant to be. |
| Springfield, IL - USA, Capitol City Cauldron | For | the proposal may not have the best wording, but 8th gen's need to not be teaching advanced disciplines. the book is our guide, not our Gospel. |
| Washington, DC - USA, Shadows on the Mall | Against | |
| Phoenix, AZ - USA, Secundus Surrectum | For | |
| Kenosha, WI - USA, Memento Mori | Against | |
| Gimli, MB - Canada, Sang Nordique | For | |
| Northern Virginia, VA - USA, Night Falls | Against | OWbN sucks for allowing 8th gens with elder disciplines in the first place, and they should reap what filth they sow. And while we are at it all ST's, CM's, and Coord's should be beaten with burlap sacks filled with rusty nails for allowing it to happen. |
| Annapolis, MD - USA, Vitae Aeternus | Against | |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | Against | |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | Against | |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | Against | To be dead Honest Macomb does not feel that ''teaching'' of disciplines is the issue that bothers us, rather that the Exp. system allows disciplines to be purchased so easily. Frankly it SHOULDN'T require a teacher for most disciplines, especially the Physicals, it should just take a long time and a LOT of experience. |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | Against | To be dead Honest Macomb does not feel that ''teaching'' of disciplines is the issue that bothers us, rather that the Exp. system allows disciplines to be purchased so easily. Frankly it SHOULDN'T require a teacher for most disciplines, especially the Physicals, it should just take a long time and a LOT of experience. |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | For | |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | For | |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | Against | While I do not think that 8th gens should even have elder level discs /or/ be able to teach them, this prop needs to be better worded before I will vote for it. I agree with Winona: Howls' opinion though, and would like to see a better worded prop come out to abolish it all. |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | Against | While I do not think that 8th gens should even have elder level discs /or/ be able to teach them, this prop needs to be better worded before I will vote for it. I agree with Winona: Howls' opinion though, and would like to see a better worded prop come out to abolish it all. |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | Against | |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | Against | |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | Against | OWbN wants the can of worms with PC Elder-Level Disciplines, then they need to deal with all the consequences. |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | Against | OWbN wants the can of worms with PC Elder-Level Disciplines, then they need to deal with all the consequences. |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | For | |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | For | |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | Against | I DO want 8th gen PC's and NPC's with elder powers to be able to teach advance disciplines. |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | Against | I DO want 8th gen PC's and NPC's with elder powers to be able to teach advance disciplines. |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | Abstain | |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | Abstain | |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | Abstain | I like what EotR said but... |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | Abstain | I like what EotR said but... |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | For | If 8th Gen NPCs are allowed to teach them, 8th gen PCsought to be allowed. 8th gens shouldn't have Elder powers in the first place (see my vote on that issue), so there is no reason they should be allowed to teach them. Yes, the book says they can have them, but I (and half of the Chronicles that voted on said issue) think that the book should never have said that in the first place. Also, it is inconsistent with other rules of OWBN. Why were PCs capped at 8th gen in the first place? Because 7th gens get Elder disciplines (this was before the book said that 8th could have them) and OWBN didn't, at that time, want PCs running around with said powers. If we're going to allow PCs to have Elder powers (which some Chronicles do), there is no reason for the 8th gen cap anymore. What a crazy issue this has turned into... |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | For | If 8th Gen NPCs are allowed to teach them, 8th gen PCsought to be allowed. 8th gens shouldn't have Elder powers in the first place (see my vote on that issue), so there is no reason they should be allowed to teach them. Yes, the book says they can have them, but I (and half of the Chronicles that voted on said issue) think that the book should never have said that in the first place. Also, it is inconsistent with other rules of OWBN. Why were PCs capped at 8th gen in the first place? Because 7th gens get Elder disciplines (this was before the book said that 8th could have them) and OWBN didn't, at that time, want PCs running around with said powers. If we're going to allow PCs to have Elder powers (which some Chronicles do), there is no reason for the 8th gen cap anymore. What a crazy issue this has turned into... |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | For | i would also prefer that it were simply to disallow pc's from teaching, not npc's, but i would like this taken from pc's regardless, which is why i am voting yes. |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | For | i would also prefer that it were simply to disallow pc's from teaching, not npc's, but i would like this taken from pc's regardless, which is why i am voting yes. |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | Against | change this to PCs only and I will vote for it. We have an 8th gen mentor in the city, who has taught advanced, and per the book this is allowed. |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | Against | change this to PCs only and I will vote for it. We have an 8th gen mentor in the city, who has taught advanced, and per the book this is allowed. |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | For | |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | For |