[OWBN-Council] [Proposal] Infernalist PCs Disallowed
Open Votes
Before I begin, I understand this is likely to be a divisive topic. Why am I proposing this?
Because twice during my first term, there has been substantial discussion on Council as to whether, in an org that is trending to less and less PVP, things in the infernal wheelhouse should remain allowed as PCs.
I have no problem with putting a major genre question regarding my office to Council and then running based on the result. At the beginning of my first term, I put a vote up for Laws of the Fallen; when Council voted against it, I went and prepped our current OWBN Player's Guide to the Fallen, which is now our rule set for Fallen genre. I did the same thing with the idea of Redemption for Fallen. Now, I'm doing it again.
If this vote passes, I will replace our current infernal packet with a section on how to use infernal antagonists in the forthcoming Demon Storyteller Packet.
If the vote fails, I will continue work on a revised infernal packet.
I am more than open to constructive feedback on how to handle this potential transition; this has already seen modification based on Coord feedback.
I also may well have overlooked some aspect that should be disallowed, as this is a lot of ground to cover.
Anyway, prop below, and I look forward to a constructive conversation about the direction of the Org and this Genre, moving forward.
-Dave
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Pursuant to Coordinator Bylaw 3.C.iii, as the Demon Coordinator, I, David Niemitz, in my duties as said Coordinator, hereby propose the following Bylaw changes.
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Bylaws Now
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i.DEMON CONTROLLED ITEMS
Merits and Flaws
Demonic Heritage: Laham - PC: Coordinator Approval - NPC: Coordinator Approval - Coordinator: Demon
Demonic Tutor - PC: Coordinator Approval - NPC: Coordinator Approval - Coordinator: Demon
Demonic Patron - PC: Coordinator Approval - NPC: Coordinator Approval - Coordinator: Demon
Unbound Diabolist - PC: Coordinator Approval - NPC: Coordinator Approval - Coordinator: Demon
Blessed (Sins of the Blood, pg 102) - PC: Coordinator Approval - NPC: Coordinator Approval - Coordinator: Demon
Baali Apostate - PC: Coordinator Approval - NPC: Coordinator Approval - Coordinator: Demon
Unholy Aura - PC: Coordinator Approval - NPC: Coordinator Approval - Coordinator: Demon
Covenant of the old ways - PC: Coordinator Approval - NPC: Coordinator Approval - Coordinator: Demon
Blasphemous Pact - PC: Disallowed as a merit - NPC: Coordinator Approval - Coordinator: Demon
Penitent Merit for Reconcilers - PC: Coordinator Notify - NPC: Coordinator Notify - Coordinator: Demon
Penitent Merit for non-Reconcilers - PC: Coordinator Approval - NPC: Coordinator Notify - Coordinator: Demon
True Faith Merit for Fallen - PC: Disallowed - NPC: Disallowed - Coordinator: Demon
Powers
Daimonion Based Combination Disciplines possessed by Non-Baali - PC: Coordinator Approval - NPC: Coordinator Approval - Coordinator: Demon
Dark Thaumaturgy Combination Disciplines possessed by Non-Infernalists - PC: Coordinator Approval - NPC: Coordinator Approval - Coordinator: Demon
Usage of Investment: Relentless - PC: Coordinator Notify - NPC: Coordinator Notify - Coordinator: Demon
Investments 1-2 - PC: Coordinator Approval - NPC: Unregulated - Coordinator: Demon
Investments 3 - PC: Coordinator Approval - NPC: Coordinator Approval - Coordinator: Demon
Investments not defined in the document OWbN Infernalism: Path of Screams and Blood
Out-of-Parent-Genre powers not printed as investments in any white wolf material for PCs - PC: Disallowed - NPC: Council Vote - Coordinator: Demon
Custom powers as Investments - PC: Coordinator Approval - NPC: Coordinator Approval - Coordinator: Demon
Non Baali/Angellis/Baali Apostates with Daimonion - PC: Coordinator Approval - NPC: Coordinator Approval - Coordinator: Demon
Use of Lore of Spirit 5: Restore the Dead targeting a Fallen, Semi-Supernatural, Mortal or Wraith PC or former PC - PC: Coordinator Approval - NPC: Coordinator Approval - Coordinator: Demon
Use of Lore of Spirit 5: Restore the Dead targeting a former PC of any Full Supernatural genre but Fallen or Wraith - PC Disallowed - NPC Disallowed - Coordinator: Demon
Infernalism
Demonic Interaction for Pacts: Thralls - PC: Coordinator Approval - NPC: Unregulated - Coordinator: Demon
Demonic Interaction for Deals: Diabolists - PC: Coordinator Approval - NPC: Coordinator Approval - Coordinator Demon
Removing, Escaping, Redeeming or Undoing Infernal Pacts/infernal nature - PC: Coordinator Approval - NPC: Coordinator Approval - Coordinator: Demon
This includes any method by which a character is able to break free of his or her Pacts or escape their infernal nature.
Dark Thaumaturgy approval for Associates faction characters - PC: Coordinator Approval - NPC: Coordinator Approval - Coordinator: Sabbat
Dark Thaumaturgy approval for Tremere - PC: Coordinator Approval - NPC: Coordinator Approval - Coordinator Tremere
Characters making pacts with Yama Kings - PC: Coordinator Approval - NPC: Coordinator Approval - Coordinator: Kuei-jin
Backgrounds
Wells of Sacrifice lvl 4 - PC: Coordinator Notify - NPC: Coordinator Notify - Coordinator: Demon
Wells of Sacrifice lvl 5 - PC: Coordinator Approval - NPC: Coordinator Approval - Coordinator: Demon
Nest Membership lvl 4 - PC: Coordinator Notify - NPC: Coordinator Notify - Coordinator: Demon
Nest Membership lvl 5 - PC: Coordinator Approval - NPC: Coordinator Approval - Coordinator: Demon
Altar lvl 4 - PC: Coordinator Notify - NPC: Coordinator Notify - Coordinator: Demon
Altar lvl 5 - PC: Coordinator Approval - NPC: Coordinator Approval - Coordinator: Demon
Diabolist Circles lvl 4 - PC: Coordinator Notify - NPC: Coordinator Notify - Coordinator: Demon
Diabolist Circles lvl 5 - PC: Coordinator Approval - NPC: Coordinator Approval - Coordinator: Demon
Infernal Ranking - PC: Coordinator Approval - NPC: Coordinator Notify - Coordinator: Demon
Infernal Relic 4-5 - PC: Coordinator Approval - NPC: Coordinator Approval - Coordinator: Demon
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Bylaws After:
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i.DEMON CONTROLLED ITEMS
Merits and Flaws
Demonic Heritage: Laham - PC: Disallowed - NPC: Coordinator Approval - Coordinator: Demon
Demonic Tutor - PC: Disallowed - NPC: Coordinator Approval - Coordinator: Demon
Demonic Patron - PC: Disallowed - NPC: Coordinator Approval - Coordinator: Demon
Unbound Diabolist - PC: Disallowed - NPC: Coordinator Approval - Coordinator: Demon
Blessed (Sins of the Blood, pg 102) - PC: Coordinator Approval - NPC: Coordinator Approval - Coordinator: Demon
Baali Apostate - PC: Coordinator Approval - NPC: Coordinator Approval - Coordinator: Demon
Unholy Aura - PC: Disallowed - NPC: Coordinator Approval - Coordinator: Demon
Covenant of the old ways - PC: Disallowed - NPC: Coordinator Approval - Coordinator: Demon
Blasphemous Pact - PC: Disallowed - NPC: Coordinator Approval - Coordinator: Demon
Penitent Merit for Reconcilers - PC: Coordinator Notify - NPC: Coordinator Notify - Coordinator: Demon
Penitent Merit for non-Reconcilers - PC: Coordinator Approval - NPC: Coordinator Notify - Coordinator: Demon
True Faith Merit for Fallen - PC: Disallowed - NPC: Disallowed - Coordinator: Demon
Powers
Daimonion Based Combination Disciplines possessed by Non-Baali - PC: Coordinator Approval - NPC: Coordinator Approval - Coordinator: Demon
Dark Thaumaturgy Combination Disciplines possessed by Non-Infernalists - PC: Coordinator Approval - NPC: Coordinator Approval - Coordinator: Demon
Usage of Investment: Relentless - PC: Disallowed- NPC: Coordinator Notify - Coordinator: Demon
Investments 1-2 - PC: Disallowed - NPC: Unregulated - Coordinator: Demon
Investments 3 - PC: Disallowed - NPC: Coordinator Approval - Coordinator: Demon
Investments not defined in the document OWbN Infernalism: Path of Screams and Blood
Out-of-Parent-Genre powers not printed as investments in any white wolf material for PCs - PC: Disallowed - NPC: Council Vote - Coordinator: Demon
Custom powers as Investments - PC: Disallowed - NPC: Coordinator Approval - Coordinator: Demon
Non Baali/Angellis/Baali Apostates with Daimonion - PC: Coordinator Approval - NPC: Coordinator Approval - Coordinator: Demon
Use of Lore of Spirit 5: Restore the Dead targeting a Fallen, Semi-Supernatural, Mortal or Wraith PC or former PC - PC: Coordinator Approval - NPC: Coordinator Approval - Coordinator: Demon
Use of Lore of Spirit 5: Restore the Dead targeting a former PC of any Full Supernatural genre but Fallen or Wraith - PC Disallowed - NPC Disallowed - Coordinator: Demon
Infernalism
Demonic Interaction for Pacts: Thralls - PC: Disallowed- NPC: Unregulated - Coordinator: Demon
Demonic Interaction for Deals: Diabolists - PC: Disallowed - NPC: Coordinator Approval - Coordinator Demon
Removing, Escaping, Redeeming or Undoing Infernal Pacts/infernal nature - PC: Coordinator Approval - NPC: Coordinator Approval - Coordinator: Demon
This includes any method by which a character is able to break free of his or her Pacts or escape their infernal nature.
Dark Thaumaturgy approval for Associates faction characters - PC: Disallowed - NPC: Coordinator Approval - Coordinator: Sabbat
Dark Thaumaturgy approval for Tremere - PC: Disallowed - NPC: Coordinator Approval - Coordinator Tremere
Characters making pacts with Yama Kings - PC: Disallowed - NPC: Coordinator Approval - Coordinator: Kuei-jin
Non-Fallen gaining mechanical benefits from Fallen, Demons, etc which last longer than 1 month - PC: Coordinator Approval - NPC Coordinator Notify - Coordinator: Demon
Backgrounds
Wells of Sacrifice lvl 4 - PC: Disallowed - NPC: Coordinator Notify - Coordinator: Demon
Wells of Sacrifice lvl 5 - PC: Disallowed - NPC: Coordinator Approval - Coordinator: Demon
Nest Membership lvl 4 - PC: Disallowed - NPC: Coordinator Notify - Coordinator: Demon
Nest Membership lvl 5 - PC: Disallowed - NPC: Coordinator Approval - Coordinator: Demon
Altar lvl 4 - PC: Disallowed - NPC: Coordinator Notify - Coordinator: Demon
Altar lvl 5 - PC: Disallowed - NPC: Coordinator Approval - Coordinator: Demon
Diabolist Circles lvl 4 - PC: Disallowed - NPC: Coordinator Notify - Coordinator: Demon
Diabolist Circles lvl 5 - PC: Disallowed - NPC: Coordinator Approval - Coordinator: Demon
Infernal Ranking - PC: Disallowed - NPC: Coordinator Notify - Coordinator: Demon
Infernal Relic 4-5 - PC: Disallowed - NPC: Coordinator Approval - Coordinator: Demon
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Rationale
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Recent discussion on Council indicated a certain amount of support for the idea of making infernalism no longer available to PCs. Anyone who’s been paying attention this term knows by now that I’m quite willing to put a major question to Council and see what the result is. If Council would prefer Infernalists be NPC antagonists only, this Prop will do that. If Council would prefer to keep PC infernalists as part of the Org, I will continue working on a revised packet.
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Change Log
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Legacy
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None. Infernalist Thrall or Diabolist Characters have 90 days from the passing of this Prop to conclude their stories, at which point they are administratively GNC’d, UNLESS THEY HAVE A SCENE IN PROGRESS WITH THE DEMON OFFICE TO ESCAPE THEIR PACT. Escaping an Infernal Pact remains Coord Approval during this time, and the Demon Office will commit to concluding any such attempts in a timely manner - no one who attempts to escape their pact will ‘run out of time.’ If there is an ongoing attempt to escape a Pact when the 90 days runs out, and the attempt is unsuccessful, the GNC will take effect at the conclusion of the scene.
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- David Niemitz
Demon Coordinator
Current Player vote is tied on for and against. Those against feel this prop is too heavy-handed and that it will only drive the problem players into other ways to get powers and be problems. We seem to agree that we don't really like the way that Infernalism is being handled currently, but at least half of us feel like this is not a good enough solution to vote for it.