Genre Proposal: Genre Packet for Koldunic Sorcery 2007
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Proposal Type: Genre Packet
Opened: 28-Sep-2007 1:00AM EDT
Closing: 28-Sep-2007 1:00AM EDT
iii) Genre Co-ordinators must pass before Council any plot, enforced policy, or binding edict they wish to use which they can reasonably expect to affect multiple chronicles and these proposals need not be seconded, but go immediately into discussion. (1) If no opposition is voiced during the week of discussion, the proposal is considered passed and enforceable. Once passed these are considered binding to all chronicles and a chronicles refusal to adhere is grounds for OWBN disciplinary measures.
The attached document is the final draft of the much needed update of the 2004 Koldunic Sorcery Packet.
-Keith
File / Document: No file attachments for this vote.
Ballot Options Against
For
Abstain
1 out of 160 eligible voters cast their ballot
Against
46% (42 votes)
For
35% (32 votes)
Abstain
20% (18 votes)
| Chronicle/Position | Voted for | Comment |
|---|---|---|
| New York City, NY - USA, Kings of New York | For | Keith and Co. have put a lot of hard work into this packet and it is noticably better than the current one which is running around. We would like to remind people that voting against this updated version of Koldunism is essentially voting to keep every last aspect of the old Koldunism (which lets you destroy cities at a five mile range). |
| St. Petersburg, FL - USA, Faces of Change | For | |
| Los Angeles, CA - USA, La Sangre De Los Angeles | Against | The discipline is game breaking. While the packet tries to ''tone'' it down, I don't feel it does it enough. As such, I see it being used by rules lawyers in an effort to ''justify'' the wonk and their efforts to make it more available. |
| Iowa City, IA - USA, Fields of Rage | Against | We would like to see the Tzim Coord talking with the Changing Breeds Coord to help add the proper flavor and balance to this power. Its already bled over into Garou games, and werewolves are going to intereact with users of Koldunism if they find out, so best to get the interactions worked out now when the chance presents itself. |
| Cape Cod, MA - USA, Rage Across the Cape | Against | I believe the Tzimisce Coord should be working with the Changing Breeds Coord to better balance out the rules on the Spirit Interaction of Koldunism. Right now as the packet stands there is no language that defines the spiritual use by vampires and how it defers from garou. We have to make sure the interests of the much smaller Garou games are not crushed by this game breaking Discipline. Without Crossover language between Garou and Koldunism I cannot support this change. |
| Berkeley, CA - USA, Wasting the Dawn | Abstain | |
| Milwaukee, WI - USA, Nocturnal Rapture | Abstain | |
| Tampa, FL - USA, Tampa Bay by Night | Against | |
| Cleveland, OH - USA, Under an Eerie Moon | Against | This packet has real problems in terms of game balance and the discussion period did not in any way answer any of my concerns. As it stands, Koldunism is significantly stronger than many normal advanced disciplines and much more flexible. It is significantly imbalanced and grants advantages and abillities that I feel are game breaking in terms of both role play and chops. If major revisions were put in to the Ways of Water, Spirit and Fire, I would be willing to support this. But as it stands, it simply is not acceptable. |
| Cedar Rapids, IA - USA, Five Nights | Against | |
| Sacramento, CA - USA, Sacramento By Night | For | |
| Duluth, MN - USA, Thicker than Blood | For | If this packet fails, I'm more than willing to use the old one as the binding document until this one is fixed. ;-D |
| Philadelphia, PA - USA, Nusquam | Against | The fact that this packet is ''better'' then the previous packet is no reason by itself to support it. Several issues have been raised on the council list with this new packet (Way of Spirit working anywhere, Watery minions with way of water, Way of Air power Body of Zephyr, just to name a few). Most importantly, after all these issues have been raised by various CMs, they have been completely ignored by the Tzimisce coord team. I see no reason to approve a packet that gives Kolduns additional powers/paths/rituals as compared to the previous packet when the team writing this packet is unwilling or unable to comment on the issues raised by council. Yes, it cuts out problems from the old packet, but if I'm going to support a new packet, I would like to see more than just a few issues adressed, especially with whats being added to this version. |
| Chicago, IL - USA, Dark Requiem | Against | I can't endorse that much thaum being converted to Koldunic Sorcery. |
| Fredericksburg, VA - USA, Caine's Chosen: Liberty in Death | For | We think it's awesome. Much better than the previous one. Slightly more balanced mechanically and the fluff is awesome. |
| Indianapolis, IN - USA, Stars Never Rise | Against | Still WAY too wonky, still too cheesy in the areas that need to be toned down, among other things. |
| Winona, MN - USA, Winona Dark Haven | For | |
| Auburn, CA - USA, Lux Tenebras | For | |
| San Francisco, CA - USA, Always Comes Evening | Against | Per vote of players. |
| Providence, RI - USA, Hidden Flame | Abstain | Philly Garou put it better than I could. Not happy with lack of discussion with the CBC but not going to block something that appears to at least be somewhat better than what it's replacing. |
| Atlanta, GA - USA, Whispers of Atlanta | Against | This packet is overpowered, and since I can't restrict what other games do with Koldunism, I'm voting against it to protect my players that travel. Koldunism should be restricted to a characters home chronicle, or possibly state, but no larger an area than that since it's tied to the land they inhabit, and I don't see any restrictions anywhere in the packet. I disagree with Hungry Earth negating celerity actions as attempts to break free, and with Gates of Magma requiring a WP to try to pass, rather than a simple Courage test. Heat Wave is simply over-powered, and Watery Minions needs some sort of system so that it's run fairly uniformly and not over-powered based on ST Discretion. Finally, I don't think the three ''forgotten'' paths should be included, especially the Way of the Restless Dead being based on Spirit Thaum. If anything, it should operate more like the Sepulchre Path of Necromancy. I didn't even get to the rituals because these are enough issues for me to vote this down. Hopefully if this prop fails, a revised packet will be put up that is more reasonable, and we can pass it. |
| Dayton, OH - USA, Dying Embers | For | This packet has improved and defined Koldunism in OWBN. All in all, I'm pretty fond of it. |
| Winchester, VA: Sins in the Valley | Abstain | |
| Cincinnati, OH - USA, Shadows of Cincinnati | Against | I agree with CiET, in the hands of responsible players all of OWBN's packets would be great resources. Sadly the reality is that not everyone in OWBN is responsible enough to be allowed the opportunity to have volcanos at 5 mile range. Per player discussion, we would like to see the ''Domain'' of the Koldunist better defined for Way of the Spirit. |
| Columbus, OH - USA, Columbus in Darkness | For | I <3 this packet with my <3'y thing. |
| Gary, IN - USA, Shattered Souls | Against | |
| Washington, DC - USA, Shadows on the Mall | Against | Per player and staff discussion. |
| Amador, CA - USA, River of Shadows | Against | I am voting against this. I would like to see the issues with the old packet be resolved, then we will talk new stuff to be added. |
| Kenosha, WI - USA, Memento Mori | Against | |
| Green Bay, WI - USA, Shattered Dreams | Against | |
| New Orleans, LA - USA, Long Night | For | |
| Iowa City, IA - USA, L'Ange Noir | Abstain | Cam game, no kolduns |
| St. Augustine, FL - USA, On Haunted Ground | Against | |
| Edwardsville, IL - USA, Caught in Eternal Twilight | For | I like it. I think that in the hands of Responsible players, it will be a great resource to encourage roleplay. |
| Baltimore, MD - USA, Dark Harbor | For | |
| AHC 1 | Abstain | Santa Cruz by Night brought up my concern well about Way of Spirit. Unfortunately, without passing this proposed packet it means the last packet is the most current and bylaw-binding document and yet is considered more broken than this one... so I would ask CMs to keep in mind what happens if/when the vote fails. Jenn Bahrs, AHC |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | Abstain | Holding for further examination. |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | Abstain | Holding for further examination. |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | Against | Due to an obvious lack of understanding of how the Umbra works and spirits involved; I am first and foremost objecting to this packet as a Garou ST. The complete lack of spirits available for summon, the power levels and listing of powers should be spelled out and the addition of the restriction to the bane elementals. I have already heard horror stories about Koldunes on Moon Bridges. Please read Rage across the Heavens for descriptions of Lunes, followers of Luna, and Caerns Places of Power for the exact part where it says Moon Bridges go through the Aetherial realm where Helios himself is. This packet as I read the various powers enables Koldunes to do things that Elder Theurges are incapable of doing and things no Garou ST would ever allow. To give this to vampires I believe is unwise and inappropriate. List out the elemental banes that Koldunes are using as they are not using Gaian spirits. List out those that they can summon their respective power level per level of the ritual abilities charms and essence and get rid of both of the Home Brewed rites because they are blatantly over powered. |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | Against | Due to an obvious lack of understanding of how the Umbra works and spirits involved; I am first and foremost objecting to this packet as a Garou ST. The complete lack of spirits available for summon, the power levels and listing of powers should be spelled out and the addition of the restriction to the bane elementals. I have already heard horror stories about Koldunes on Moon Bridges. Please read Rage across the Heavens for descriptions of Lunes, followers of Luna, and Caerns Places of Power for the exact part where it says Moon Bridges go through the Aetherial realm where Helios himself is. This packet as I read the various powers enables Koldunes to do things that Elder Theurges are incapable of doing and things no Garou ST would ever allow. To give this to vampires I believe is unwise and inappropriate. List out the elemental banes that Koldunes are using as they are not using Gaian spirits. List out those that they can summon their respective power level per level of the ritual abilities charms and essence and get rid of both of the Home Brewed rites because they are blatantly over powered. |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | Against | |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | Against | |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | For | This packet, like every other genre packet should be viewed as a ''work in progress'', continually being improved upon. That being said, it is a vast improvement over the current Koldunic Sorcery packet. There will be more changes to come with time, until then, let's hear it for progress. My thanks to Keith and his team for all of their hard work. You have aways to-go-yet, but then again, so does everyone else. -DH |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | For | This packet, like every other genre packet should be viewed as a ''work in progress'', continually being improved upon. That being said, it is a vast improvement over the current Koldunic Sorcery packet. There will be more changes to come with time, until then, let's hear it for progress. My thanks to Keith and his team for all of their hard work. You have aways to-go-yet, but then again, so does everyone else. -DH |
| LONE | For | Yay updates! |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | For | I'm a firm believer that allowing Sabbat and Cam to intermingle is almost universally bad. That being said, I notice a trend that the majority of Sabbat games I see here are voting ''for'', and a majority of Cam games are voting ''against''. If you don't allow Sabbat into your Cam game, why do you have an opinion? And if you DO allow Sabbat into your Cam game, they certainly don't need koldunism to wreak havoc. Add the fact that this packet is universally admitted as less wonky than the last one, and I find it hard to see why anyone would vote against the current proposal. If you are truly against the old packet, why not take a step forward instead of stomping your foot and pouting? Especially if doing said pouting means the cheese you REALLY object to stays? It takes small steps to cross a mountain, especially in politics (and if you think council isn't politics, you're fooling yourself). |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | For | I'm a firm believer that allowing Sabbat and Cam to intermingle is almost universally bad. That being said, I notice a trend that the majority of Sabbat games I see here are voting ''for'', and a majority of Cam games are voting ''against''. If you don't allow Sabbat into your Cam game, why do you have an opinion? And if you DO allow Sabbat into your Cam game, they certainly don't need koldunism to wreak havoc. Add the fact that this packet is universally admitted as less wonky than the last one, and I find it hard to see why anyone would vote against the current proposal. If you are truly against the old packet, why not take a step forward instead of stomping your foot and pouting? Especially if doing said pouting means the cheese you REALLY object to stays? It takes small steps to cross a mountain, especially in politics (and if you think council isn't politics, you're fooling yourself). |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | Abstain | I really really wish I could vote against this packet. But my game is probationary so I can't. This packet does not fix the problems with Koldunism and adds more wonk. |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | Abstain | I really really wish I could vote against this packet. But my game is probationary so I can't. This packet does not fix the problems with Koldunism and adds more wonk. |
| Reclamation | Abstain | I like that way of Fire is ''overpowered'', since there are obvious negatives to throwing volcanos at most people. I would like to see more co-ordination with the CBC on the spirit issues. It is better than what we currently have, but I don't believe that putting something in that is better but still not right is an appropriate step at this time. |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | Against | Way of Spirit should be restricted to the koldun's domain as described under the power. It's broken to have Way of spirit work within five miles of wherever the koldun is. And that's only the most broken part of it. |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | Against | Way of Spirit should be restricted to the koldun's domain as described under the power. It's broken to have Way of spirit work within five miles of wherever the koldun is. And that's only the most broken part of it. |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | For | |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | For |