Removal of Probational Sect Flaw
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Proposal Type: Bylaw Revision
Opened: 27-Oct-2004 1:00AM EDT
Closing: 03-Nov-2004 1:00AM EST
The purpose of this proposal is to remove the section of the bylaws forcing Full Camarilla Assamites to take the Flaw: Probationary Sect Member.
File / Document: No file attachments for this vote.
Ballot Options For
Abstain
Against
1 out of 160 eligible voters cast their ballot
Against
52% (32 votes)
For
42% (26 votes)
Abstain
6% (4 votes)
| Chronicle/Position | Voted for | Comment |
|---|---|---|
| St. Petersburg, FL - USA, Faces of Change | Against | See Monster's Compandium pg 123 Schismatic Assamites. Racial Penalty: -2 Charisma for being seen as a bunch of diablerists religious zealots Five years of the Assamite political face to the Camarilla isn't going to change the past thousand + years of smear campaigns orchestrated by the Elders. Assamites should have the flaw, it's part and part of playing a Schismatic. |
| Los Angeles, CA - USA, La Sangre De Los Angeles | Against | The players of Los Angeles want to keep this as a OWBN wide flaw. So they wish to see this measure fail. |
| Stockton, CA - USA, Stockton by Night | For | |
| Milwaukee, WI - USA, Nocturnal Rapture | Against | |
| Duluth, MN - USA, Thicker than Blood | For | It should be removed, the Assamites are a pain but the reality is that they were admitted to the Cam because they are in dire straits without the Gangrel. Let them be normal everyday people. I was there when they were told to be treated like puppies. I guess now is a great time for them to be full blown doggies... :) |
| Philadelphia, PA - USA, Nusquam | Against | With the beginning of this Chronicle, Clan Assamite has come along way and have managed to prove a valuable asset to the domain and set some trends. However, a general concensus from the player base is showing that they do not agree with removing the ''Probationary Sect Member'' flaw. Should the general concensus change, our vote will change. |
| Winona, MN - USA, Winona Dark Haven | For | |
| San Francisco, CA - USA, Always Comes Evening | Against | |
| Providence, RI - USA, Hidden Flame | For | I think there should be a level playing field. Either all members of the Cam whose clans aren't ''official'' members need to be given the mandatory flaw, or no one should have it. |
| Atlanta, GA - USA, Whispers of Atlanta | For | I would prefer to leave this in the hands of the STs. |
| Cleveland, OH - USA, Carpe Noctum | For | It has been 5 years of real life time during the supposed end of times. And five years does make up for it, if you consider that OWBN more or less plays in compressed time, thus the neonate to Elder power level in 5 years. Additionally the removal of the flaw is supported by WW genre material, since that seems to be the gold standard. Note also that the rampant killers were the warrior sect, and the main group that was supposed admitted to the Cam was mostly Viziers and Sorceror's with a lower percentage of Warriors. The flaw should be removed as a *mandatory* genre flaw. It can still be assigned by STs at will for those players that deserve it. A potential compromise is to make it still a mandatory flaw for warriors, though I would discourage even that. As a recommended flaw for warriors, it would be good. |
| Dayton, OH - USA, Dying Embers | Against | Along with others on here, I think that this flaw should go away if and when the Assamites have the restrictions that were levied upon them at Conclave lifted. |
| Cincinnati, OH - USA, Shadows of Cincinnati | Against | Absolutely not. Our staff unanimously agreed for many of the reason mentioned here. |
| Springfield, IL - USA, Capitol City Cauldron | For | If the OOC mechanic is there, but not being percieved IC anymore there is no reason to keep making it mandatory. The relationship between the rest of the Cam and the Assamites is different in each area...and should be represented as such. In some areas, the Assamites have earned respect over the last 5 years...in others, not so much. |
| Washington, DC - USA, Shadows on the Mall | Against | If this flaw were actually used by the players, and their characters I'd probably vote yes.But after seeing a 3 day fight on the rant list about how ''Assamites are teh coolest, and our friends'' I think the ooc mechanic should remain in place. Individual Assamites are welcome to make a place for themselves in a Cam domain, but that still doesn't mean an elder is going to truly respect a 6 status Assamite who's been in the Cam for 3-5 years. |
| Phoenix, AZ - USA, Secundus Surrectum | For | All or none. Gangrel in the Camarilla deserve it, Setites in the Camarilla Deserve it. Neither of these has it. Heck, the Assamites can hold positions, VOTED upon by the PLAYERS at a Conclave, while Setites cannot. How does that show that they (the Assamites) are distrusted? |
| Kenosha, WI - USA, Memento Mori | Against | Cheri argued that her predecessor didn't understand genre, and that's why Assamites have this flaw. Too bad it was a Council decision, not a Coord decision, irregardless of whom proposed it. Either way, I have yet to see suitable reason as to why the Camarilla would whole-heartedly accept Assamites as full-fledged members of the Camarilla. The day we have a Conclave and give them full rights including holding Praxis over a city is the day this mandatory flaw should go away, and not sooner. |
| Green Bay, WI - USA, Shattered Dreams | Against | 5 years does not make up for thousands of years of killing cammies and eating souls..... |
| Harrisonburg, VA: Death in the Valley | Against | Voting with local vampire chronicles |
| Iowa City, IA - USA, L'Ange Noir | For | |
| Northern Virginia, VA - USA, Night Falls | Against | Absolutly not, The flaw is in place to give the feel of the hatred and mistrust that has built up with in the Camarilla over the last several hundered years. My fellow Players In Nightfalls Assamites included (who practically run the domain), do not feel five years is enough time. Regardless of the backdoor deals made by Al Ashrad and Tygerius with the Inner Circle. The everyday run of the mill Camarilla Citizen still should not trust them, still should not want them directing their city or sitting as a lord over those clans that have put hundreds of years into the Camarilla and buckets of blood, defending it from Assamites and Sabbat alike. Five years ago they were the enemy, they splintered and now seek the security of Mommas skirts.Sorry it take longer than five years to be accepted by any vampire let alone several wgo have delt with them as Enemies for hundreds of years. |
| Edwardsville, IL - USA, Caught in Eternal Twilight | For | Make it game by game. If someone's concept deserves it, make them take it, but not on a mandatory genre basis for all Assamites. The Assamites have been ''on probation'' for quite some time now. And I definately agree with the AHC. Either Gangrel have it or the Assamites lose it. Very few games are requiring their Assamites to take Probationary Sect Member anyways. |
| AHC 1 | For | I will support Assamites having the flaw Probationary Sect Member when Gangrel have the flaw placed on their sheets. It's been long enough. |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | For | This is already role-played. |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | For | This is already role-played. |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | Against | supporting local vamp chronicles. |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | Against | supporting local vamp chronicles. |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | Abstain | |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | Abstain | |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | Abstain | |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | Abstain | |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | Against | |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | Against | |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | Against | Votiong with Local Vamp Chronicles |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | Against | Votiong with Local Vamp Chronicles |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | Against | If you want to be a full fledged member of the Cam, play a Cam clan. |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | Against | If you want to be a full fledged member of the Cam, play a Cam clan. |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | For | there is no logical reason why this flaw should still be there. If the cammarilla wants them to actually defend its ivory towers, then they have to let them have equal respect. |
| Chronicle/Position Unknown | For | there is no logical reason why this flaw should still be there. If the cammarilla wants them to actually defend its ivory towers, then they have to let them have equal respect. |